飞云
加入时间: 2004/02/14
文章: 4072
经验值: 434
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作者：飞云 在 罕见奇谈 发贴, 来自 http://www.hjclub.org
从他们的对话看出, 印度人有些无知, 但非常仇视中国. 中有一位叫"chola", 他说他有
位中国女朋友, 他在一家米国公司工作, 因中国女朋友关系, 他到过上海, 广东, 他在
论坛上经常炫耀. 他非常反华仇华.
Indian discussion on China
ramana:
这是由Mohan Malik所写有关中国的报告.
http://www.carlisle.army.mil/ssi/pubs/2002/dragon/dragon.htm
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Sarma:
Ramanagaru, 多谢贴上Mohan Malik所写的优秀文章. 我对你敏锐的眼光, 详尽的资料感到
惊讶. 篇文章和我的看法一样, 清晰表示了, 如果说"中国是超级大国", 根本是荒谬的.
文章作者演绎了"国际强权不是由直线轨道解释". 而是在预测时要考虑预料之外的撞击因
素. 中国和一班独裁者, 大屠杀凶手, 中世纪伊斯兰教神学士走在一起. 看我们印度,
色列, 米国, 俄罗斯, 伊朗, 南亚诸国, 及一些令人敬畏的朋友都和我们交好. 明显看出
你是站在中国阵营还是在印度阵营.
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chola:
在地缘政治上, 米国紧紧钳夹住中国, 一直如此.
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parsuram :
Mohan Malik那篇出色的报告, 重点指出了中国明显地把自己迫入死角, 而且这那篇报告写
在第二次伊拉克战争之前. 它(中国)只和一群氓贱民如缅甸, 北朝鲜, 巴勒斯坦乌合在一
起. 从米国的高科技武器大门为印度打开後, 中国在印度面前没戏了. 中国是傻子也要考
虑承认锡金是印度一部份的时候了. 中国支持巴勒斯坦根本是大错特错的选择. 以中国的
国家利益着想, 选择一个强大的胜利者做伙伴, 才是最佳的选择, 而自1971年後中国黏住
了巴基斯坦. 1950年中印关系的基础上, 中国和印度应建立亚洲大联盟, 甚至冷战后还可
把日本也扯过来, 但中国无知地以为自己可以单独控制亚洲, 现在中国的想法还是如此.
中国如果放弃控制亚洲的希望,它会做得更好.
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chola:
关於控制亚洲的问题, 我非常怀疑中国有这样的视野. 老实说, 中国除了在西藏外, 在其
他国家没有驻军.中国由朝鲜撤军, 由越南撤军, 在占领印度的土地后也撤军. 中国这样做
由於他们没有能力控制那些地方.
只有超强者才能控制其他国家. 中国不是超强大国, 你可以从他们的行为看出. 中国从不
在联大行驶否决权, 从不为联合国提供安全部队, 他们从不参加和联盟, 这都不是超强
者表现.
米国在日本, 南韩, 巴基斯坦, 阿富汗, 中亚等地驻军. 米国第七舰队在台湾海峡, 米国
提供F-16和空空导弹给台湾.
而中国只能搞局, 再没其他能耐, 不多不少, 但它的行动被美国遏制住.
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ramana:
我应该说清楚一些, 中国和印度能双赢是边界问题. 中国应该承认中国占领印度的土地是
印度的主权所属, 印度只是租给中国99年或者类似期限, 到期要归还印度.
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muddur:
中国官员说 "中印是伙伴而不是敌对者"
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/comp/articleshow?msid=16138
红龙开始糖衣裹炮弹, 把它装扔扮成善意的熊猫.
英文对话原文
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ramana:
Another article by Dr. Mohan Malik on China:
http://www.carlisle.army.mil/ssi/pubs/2002/dragon/dragon.htm
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Sarma:
Ramanagaru, Thanks a lot for posting the link to that great paper by MM.
I have been astonished many a time by your keen eye for detail and information.
This paper articulates the views I have expressed here that the talk of
"China is a superpower" is pure nonsense. To paraphrase the author "International
power politics do not follow a linear trajectory" and one needs to factor in
unforeseen bumps into any such predictions.
Today, China is in the unenviable company of dictators, mass murderers and
medieval mullahs as its great friends. Look at India -- Israel, US, Russia,
Iran, Southeast Asia and other formidable group of modern friends.
Now make your choie whether you want to be in China's or India's place.
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chola:
Geopolitically, the US has China in a vise. It always did.
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parsuram :
Mohan Malik's excellent article high lights what is quite obvious now (his article
is pre Iraq) - that China has painted itself into a corner. It is isolated, with a
few ragtag "allies" like Myanmar, North Korea, Pakistan, etc. With US now opening
its doors to Indian requests for wapons and technology, China has almost no
bargaining chips left in dealing with India. PRC has to be nuts to think that
their "recognition" of Sikkim as an Indian State means anything worthwhile.
Chinese were fundamentally wrong in choosing to back Pakistan in south Asia.
Their own national interest should have told them, that in picking a partner,
pick the big guy - pick a winner. Instead, they stuck with Pakistan -even after
1971. Based on the Sino/Indian relationship of the 1950s, China could have built
up a formidable Asian alliance which might have brought in Japan after the cold
war, but they were arrogant enough to think they would run Asia all on their
own (they still are). China would do well to take care of itself without
attempting to "run" Asia.
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chola:
As for running Asia, I doubt they ever had the view that they could. In all fairness,
they never based troops anywhere outside of Tibet. They pulled back from North Korea,
Vietnam and, yes, most parts of India that they've taken. This is because they've
neither ability or the will to keep them there.
Only great powers can hope to run other nations. China is no great power. You can
see it in their actions. They never veto the US in the UNSC, they never contribute
to UN security forces, they never participate in formal alliances. These are not
the actions of a great power.
Yes, it looks okay alright. American troops in Japan. American troops in South Korea.
In Pakistan. In Afghanistan. In Central Asia. The US Seventh Fleet in the Taiwan Straits.
US-supplied F-16s and AMRAAMS on Taiwan itself.
Yes, it looks okay.
China play a spoilers role, no more, no less. But its actions are ever more limited by the US.
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ramana:
I should have phrased my question better. What is win-win for both India and China are the
border issues.
I think that China agrees to Indian sovereignity over the lands it has occupied and India
leases them back for 99 years or some such period.
Islamic terrorists in other lands is beyond bilateral scope of work. Let those who created
the monster take care of it.
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muddur:
"India a partner, not a rival" Chinese official
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/comp/articleshow?msid=16138
Red dragons sugar coating has begun. See its transformation into a harmless Panda now ...
英文对话原文
-------------------------------------------------------------------
ramana:
Another article by Dr. Mohan Malik on China:
http://www.carlisle.army.mil/ssi/pubs/2002/dragon/dragon.htm
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Sarma:
Ramanagaru, Thanks a lot for posting the link to that great paper by MM.
I have been astonished many a time by your keen eye for detail and information.
This paper articulates the views I have expressed here that the talk of
"China is a superpower" is pure nonsense. To paraphrase the author "International
power politics do not follow a linear trajectory" and one needs to factor in
unforeseen bumps into any such predictions.
Today, China is in the unenviable company of dictators, mass murderers and
medieval mullahs as its great friends. Look at India -- Israel, US, Russia,
Iran, Southeast Asia and other formidable group of modern friends.
Now make your choie whether you want to be in China's or India's place.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
chola:
Geopolitically, the US has China in a vise. It always did.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
parsuram :
Mohan Malik's excellent article high lights what is quite obvious now (his article
is pre Iraq) - that China has painted itself into a corner. It is isolated, with a
few ragtag "allies" like Myanmar, North Korea, Pakistan, etc. With US now opening
its doors to Indian requests for wapons and technology, China has almost no
bargaining chips left in dealing with India. PRC has to be nuts to think that
their "recognition" of Sikkim as an Indian State means anything worthwhile.
Chinese were fundamentally wrong in choosing to back Pakistan in south Asia.
Their own national interest should have told them, that in picking a partner,
pick the big guy - pick a winner. Instead, they stuck with Pakistan -even after
1971. Based on the Sino/Indian relationship of the 1950s, China could have built
up a formidable Asian alliance which might have brought in Japan after the cold
war, but they were arrogant enough to think they would run Asia all on their
own (they still are). China would do well to take care of itself without
attempting to "run" Asia.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
chola:
As for running Asia, I doubt they ever had the view that they could. In all fairness,
they never based troops anywhere outside of Tibet. They pulled back from North Korea,
Vietnam and, yes, most parts of India that they've taken. This is because they've
neither ability or the will to keep them there.
Only great powers can hope to run other nations. China is no great power. You can
see it in their actions. They never veto the US in the UNSC, they never contribute
to UN security forces, they never participate in formal alliances. These are not
the actions of a great power.
Yes, it looks okay alright. American troops in Japan. American troops in South Korea.
In Pakistan. In Afghanistan. In Central Asia. The US Seventh Fleet in the Taiwan Straits.
US-supplied F-16s and AMRAAMS on Taiwan itself.
Yes, it looks okay.
China play a spoilers role, no more, no less. But its actions are ever more limited by the US.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
ramana:
I should have phrased my question better. What is win-win for both India and China are the
border issues.
I think that China agrees to Indian sovereignity over the lands it has occupied and India
leases them back for 99 years or some such period.
Islamic terrorists in other lands is beyond bilateral scope of work. Let those who created
the monster take care of it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
muddur:
"India a partner, not a rival" Chinese official
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/comp/articleshow?msid=16138
Red dragons sugar coating has begun. See its transformation into a harmless Panda now ...
作者：飞云 在 罕见奇谈 发贴, 来自 http://www.hjclub.org |
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印度人在印度论坛在讨论中国
